Quick Thoughts on #nocleanfeed Street Demonstrations

Posted on February 12th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

This is a cross post from my Facebook note found here:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=299394242033&comments

I did this on the spur of the moment last night so wasn’t concerned about accessibility outside of Facebook so this also includes the comments for those that cannot access the note. I apologise about the formatting; just in a bit of a rush.

SIC – Stop Internet Censorship
BTF – Block The Filter
STF – Stop The Filter
DLC – Digital Liberty Coalition
IRC – Internet Relay Chat


I posted the below as a series of comments to the Block the Filter event page here:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=200213317223&index=1

Just sharing as I was suppose to blog about this ages ago but haven’t had time. So hopefully, this will make me explain myself on this topic. :-P Leave some comments and ask me if you need clarification, evidence, whatever. ;)

—————-

First off, just so you know who I work with to avoid confusion:

I am one of the organisers from the group Stop Internet Censorship (www.stopinternetcensorship.org), based in Brisbane.

I was previously involved in the Digital Liberty Coalition in 2008/2009 as a board member.

My role in these groups has been in a number of things: media representative, event organiser, volunteer officer etc at a state and national scale.

So that’s my background. I’m trying to keep things rational rather than emotional in regards to dialogue about the actions that are happening against the filter.

To Stop The Filter:
I feel your all your posts in regards to BTF’s performance on handling this event is just causing more fear, confusing, upset etc upon the *supporters* of the cause. There is no need for it. Yes, they have not pulled through on this, however, being a loose collective of passionate activists, we have to give them some breathing room in the fact it was likely that mistakes would be made in the organisational side of things.

Those that want to know what has happened with BTF, try out IRC to speak to the current volunteers and they’re happy to be open about what the group has done (success and failures) and what they’re doing now.

To everyone:
SO WHY ARE GROUPS NOT HOLDING STREET DEMONSTRATIONS (yet):
(Limit on characters and such, I’ll be brief so no deep details and more generalising in this but if you want to discuss it in depth, post on my wall or find me on IRC.)

The fact is, regardless of a nice RSVP number on FB, this protest will no succeed in a way that will make any progress in preventing the government acting on bringing the filter in. This sounds blunt, I know. Here’s why:

- You truly need a *large* attendance, I’m speaking into the hundred thousands nationally, to gain the media exposure that would bring this issue into the mainstream. However, as the war protests in the past have shown us, the pollies will *still* ignore it as a threat.

- You’re preaching to the converted. This can be fine if your aim is to mobilise those already supporting the issue and direct them into further actions. However, a street rally isn’t the most effective way to do this.

-”But the public will see us out there; it’ll provoke them to care”. It is in my opinion that this isn’t going to work for us, right now. The majority of people don’t know about this issue, are misinformed about and/or have a ‘meh’ attitude. They need *education* first; a street rally isn’t the most effective approach for this. The target audience isn’t *us*, it’s the families that don’t understand the net that Conroy has pulled cloth over their eyes. A rally in general, is very alienating/not important to those that have more important things on the their mind like taking care of their kids.

- The action date for March 6 is less than a month away. There is really no way to organised a protest in this time. You’ll have to let aspects of the preparation to slip to get it all together. So it’s less professional leading to a disappointed crowd and media ignoring it.

- By not having a rally now, doesn’t need that one won’t happen in the future. Don’t read it that way. Should the right timing, resources and media attention come into play, maybe it would be seem that a street demonstration is the best tool we have.

WHAT THE HELL ARE THE BBQ’s/NDA ABOUT?
Now, remember I am not a representative of BTF so I am not speaking on their behalf. However, as I have spoken to their members on IRC, I’d like to share the info I have about the event’s description.

NDA (National day of action) is the replacement for the street demonstration. I noticed comments making a big deal about the use of the word, ‘protest’, but you have to remember, a form of protest doesn’t always mean raging on the streets. Writing a letter to your MP is a form of protest, a form of being a political activist. Activists do use other tools with street demonstrations.

Hence why the BTF are now doing the BBQ in the Park style rally. It’s a same thing in many regards – a gathering of people that care, discussion encouraged, information shared by speakers, fliers, signs.

The difference? The atmosphere. It’s more orientated to embrace families, kids, those that aren’t caring about the issue yet. It allows them to feel it isn’t a group of activists forcing an issue down their throats. They have a lot of important things in their life, we have to draw them in, not force them in. Making an event that is much more inviting for our target audience is a more effective way to reach those that currently think it’s not important to them or that they want to avoid us because we’re ‘just some protest group whinging’.

The last thing I want to leave on is PR. Having just another group organise just another event is confusing and can potentially hurt the movement’s branding in general.

I realise STF are doing these rallies as they feel it’s needed to unite supporters on BTF pages that have felt let down.

But look at the bigger picture. We need a united front. All groups currently that have been involved the last few months and in the past that have been holding public meetings agree that a rally isn’t the way to go at this point it time.

Another event will show a divide in the group. We don’t need this.

If you truly care for the cause, do want to be involved in making change on this issue, don’t allow your actions to be based on just the passionate anger you gain. Think about the movement’s objectives, apply some critical thinking and see the long term impacts of everyone involved. We can’t just be flying off the handles in our approach. Sure, Conroy pisses me off but things like Operation: Titstorm or just putting Conroy down won’t show the strength of the anti-censorship movement to the government.


Facebook comments (as of 2:15pm, 12/2/2009):
Written 13 hours ago · ·

David CraftiDavid Crafti

OK, that sounds somewhat reasonable, but are there BBQs organised for each state? I haven’t heard about anything in Victoria.
12 hours ago ·
Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

Well, SIC is currently in QLD and SA only so I haven’t got details on any other states.If there are any groups in other states wanting to take an educational approach in March with us, I’m happy to help them out so we’re consistent nationally. I just don’t know of any other groups operating.

The only detail which seems to be set in some is the date, March 6, due to the promotion it has received.

BTF want to find volunteers to do things in the other states, however, they’re currently working out their ‘organisation’s’ structure as the current volunteers are all new blood. They’re starting a fresh pretty much so that’s why there’s no confirmed details of how what events are happening and where. Hopefully, in the next few days they will be able to provide everyone with some news.
d.
12 hours ago
·

David CraftiDavid Crafti

Thanks. Please keep me up to date if you find out more about Victorian organisations/events specifically, though NSW is also a major areas that could do with some campaigns.
12 hours ago ·
Trish ZanettiTrish Zanetti

David there was no event at all organised for Melbourne or Perth so a couple of days ago some of us in those cities decided to organise rallies in the city.Here are the details for Melbourne rally
12 noon outside State Library
It is being organised by a new group called Stop the Filter Melbournehttp://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=298307181198

For anyone from Perth the page for the Stop the Filter rally is http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=336217294950

We do have a venue booked but can’t advertise it yet as still finalising public liability insurance etc but we do have Senator Scott Ludlum confirmed as a speaker on the day.

If anyone intends to go – please RSVP to the pages above to show support and get updates on speakers.
12 hours ago
·

Tiara MerchgirlTiara Merchgirl

Nice work! I remember the last time there was a protest (in Brisbane) I was in line for Subway and a couple of people behind me were talking about us protestors. “Why are they protesting? It’s to prevent child porn! A filter for that would be great!” The LOLcat jokes and the inbred nature of it all just alienates others.Great job on the BBQ reaching out approach, though there could be more of an effort to promote them outside Facebook. Otherwise it’s just preaching to the converted again, just with food.
6 hours ago
·
David CraftiDavid Crafti

Thanks for the info Trish, I’ve sent the invite out to around 1500 people, though most are not in Melbourne.
6 hours ago ·
Dave SingerDave Singer

David, did you *read* Jasmine’s note?
5 hours ago ·
David CraftiDavid Crafti

Yes, but BTF haven’t been organising anything specifically for Melbourne.
A protest can always be followed by a barbecue. The events can co-exist.
So Jasmine isn’t organising a protest, but that doesn’t mean that others can’t organise one. The protest will support any barbecue that takes place. I wish the reverse was true. I think that competing interests and a lack of cooperation has been the main reason that it has taken this long for someone to really step up and lock something in.
5 hours ago ·
Tiara MerchgirlTiara Merchgirl

I think Jasmine’s point was that a protest would alienate the people that we need on our side from actually taking part in the issue – making the BBQ counterproductive. I’ve seen that in Brisbane.
4 hours ago ·
Dave SingerDave Singer

The problem is the a protest is utterly the wrong idea and it will almost certainly embarrass the cause, with ZERO possibility of it helping.We’ve done it before, in every state capital and in Canberra. We cared, we tried and we failed. And the difference now is that most of the people who care about #nocleanfeed know that protests are a useless idea.
3 hours ago
·
Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

David,I commented later on the BTF’s wall that I feel that using them to promote each other is a *bad idea* from a PR angle and I think it will damage some of the community’s spirit within the movement.

My reasons for this are:

- It will be clear that STF is separate from BTF/SIC/EFA as they have big clear in stating they’re existence came about due to ‘BTF failing everyone’. So the gap is already there.

- It makes it look like the movement thinks the street rally is a useful tool at this point in time. We’re already come out stating we do not wish to have street rallies for March, then we suddenly support a group’s rally in line with our event? This will cause confusion and lack of trust in the groups working on this issue.

- More confusion is caused as people figure out if there really is two event, one event, if something is canceled etc. Even if on the day, the first event announces the second one, people will still be like, ‘Wait? I could of went to that instead?/ Why aren’t you united?/ I’m too tired” etc.

- at the same time, a crap protest will make them not want to go to a BBQ. IF only 100 show up, I’d be disappointed and leave earlier. We need to try and avoid killing everyone’s spirit as we need volunteers for the long term.

- Street rallies during the day tire you out. I doubt half the crowd from a street rally will then go to a BBQ afterwards. They got their rage out, think they’ve made change and used up their energy already.

-Now the big one: Media comes out in the morning usually. If the street rally is between say 9-12, it’s likely they will ONLY go to that event and forget the BBQ, especially in smaller cities. This means, if we do get any coverage for the NDA, it’ll be shown as ‘street protesters’ and the media will do the same thing with coverage as they did with the DLC rallies imho. We want the media to go to the BBQ’s – we want them to hopefully write about how we’re a community educating on another, not that we are an angry mob. We *need* to get away from the angry mob image if we want opposition *and* supporters to take their involvement in the cause seriously.
3 hours ago
·

Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

Just the note about the media:That’s on weekends. It can be a real pain to get them out in the afternoons. During the week, it’s a bit better but as this *isn’t* a mainstream issue, other stories will take priority so you’re still in for a battle.
3 hours ago
·
David CraftiDavid Crafti

I went to a successful rally in Melbourne in early 2009. There were speakers from relevant organisations including political parties and civil liberties groups and there was a decent turnout despite it raining heavily. I disagree with the assertion that rallies are doomed to failure. I think that the
vehement opposition to a rally could work to be a self-fulfilling prophecy, however, which would be disappointing. Meanwhile, I still haven’t heard
anything concrete about a barbecue in Melbourne, so I can’t get behind that
due to a lack of existence.
3 hours ago via Email Reply ·
Trish ZanettiTrish Zanetti

Just to clarify – so far we are having rallies in Perth and Melbourne – do you understand what a rally is?In Perth there willl be a stage, speakers on a platform including Senator Scott Ludlum so far, tables with the EFA petition and contact lists for people to fill in so we can continue the campaign after the rally. We may have some music depending on police state Perth permissions… what is so frightening and bad for the cause about that???
3 hours ago ·
Andrew GlanceyAndrew Glancey

Crafti did u read the original note? SIC is opposed to the angry mob/street protest approach as it’s ineffective, damages the cause, preaches to the converted, does nothing to win ppl over to our side, does nothing to apply pressure on pollies, relies entirely on positive media coverage to succeed and does nothing beyond the day of the event to engage ppl to effectively lobby the Govt in an ongoing capacity. how do you see a street protest having any impact on this issue whatsoever and how could this not be achieved by a more family-friendly, community orientated ‘BBQ/Picnic’ approach?
3 hours ago ·
David Crafti David Crafti

OK, well where and when is the barbecue in Melbourne? I’m happy to support a barbecue, but it has to exist.
3 hours ago ·
Trish ZanettiTrish Zanetti

OMG who says we are gonna have angry mob protests?? Talk about fear mongering!!! We are holding rallies! Speakers on a platform etc (see above) we haven’t even discussed a march yet.
3 hours ago ·
David CraftiDavid Crafti

I would also like to point out that there can be different tactics in different states. The groups doing the organisation are too disparate to expect homogeneity in the outcome.
3 hours ago ·
Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

David,are you referring to the one organised by Justin Pearson Smith? He was a state coordinator for DLC and the only rally I recall close to the timeframe you gave is that one with happened on in December 2008. It rained.

Did it get any coverage? Hell no. Melbourne locally got no local media outlets mention it. We did get national and some international coverage in general about DLC but no more. And of course, Conroy and co didn’t take it as a threat. They didn’t even comment on it after the events occurred.

The other problem was, the secondary use of protests wasn’t use – to get people doing actions *after* the event. This would have made in a successful protest in a sense but it didn’t seem to occur.
3 hours ago
·

Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

Trish,it’s the general public’s view on the rally due to the media portraying that way. No one here thinks it’s fact, it’s the stereotype we need to fight against.

Holding a rally before we get over this stereotype, while the general joe smith thinks its angry activists, won’t make them stop and think beyond what the media has told them. When something is a mainstream issue, this stereotype isn’t so much a problem but currently for this movement it is. It’s the wall we ran into with DLC events.
3 hours ago
·

Trish ZanettiTrish Zanetti

I’m talking about the rallies planned now – not anything doen in the pastLook I’ve seen the youtube thing you guys keep sending me. What I heard from that was that the group was badly organised and didn’t know what they were doing every time they did a protest or a rally. In Perth and Melbourne we have experienced people – what is your problem with speakers on a stage? It is a moot point anyhow because the event are already in motion and instead of wasting time here we should be all promoting our events – gettting them on the radio, putting up posters etc etc
3 hours ago
·
Jasmine Marosvary Jasmine Marosvary

Suggestion:If you’re looking for action beyond a gathering for a BBQ, you don’t need a march or even speakers to educate the public.

In the past a successful means of reaching the public is ‘info tables’.
1) Grab a permit for a mall,
2)get a very *small* crowd of people that *know everything* on the issue – I mean arguments, tech side, quotes – off by heart.
3) Give out pamphlets appropriate for your target audience (think about the sort of area you’re doing this in to decide)

This allows the public a face to face, one on one, non-political charged atmosphere to here your thoughts on the issue.

I do encourage this sort of thing during street rallies too. I don’t believe just having speakers and signs is effective. But this method above you can arrange to do every weekend, any time and any where and not have to worry about alienating those with a large crowd.
3 hours ago
·

Andrew GlanceyAndrew Glancey

Trish you may do well in rallying together ppl who already know about the issue. You might get a few column inches saying “anti-censorship protesters vent rage at Govt” – but how will any of this achieve the aims of a) applying pressure to pollies and b) winning ppl over to our side (esp Parents) so they too can do (a)??We’ve had poorly organised protests in Nov 08 – they hurt the cause. We had well organised, nation-wide coordinated protests that got loads of coverage leading up to and after the event in Dec 08 – nothing came of these either. We held a national rally in Canberra, March 09 – again, nothing happened. Now the legislation is coming in and your suggestion is “let’s street protest AGAIN”? I ask you: why?

There is simply more effective methods to adopt, right now. If u can give me a reason why street protesting is so important, so effective, I am all ears. But I have heard no argument put forward from anyone yet – it’s all “I wanna chant!” or “The FB group SAID there would be a protest so there should be!” and nothing about achieving our aims.

Also, make sure you have a PA for Ludlam this time – Perth’s 08 rally used megaphones that ran out of batteries and it was embarrassing as hell for everyone involved.
3 hours ago
·

Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

(gah stupid Facebook text box keeps hiding my spam instead of scrolling so I can’t see my typos >>)
3 hours ago ·
Jasmine Marosvary Jasmine Marosvary

“There is simply more effective methods to adopt, right now. If u can give me a reason why street protesting is so important, so effective, I am all ears. But I have heard no argument put forward from anyone yet – it’s all “I wanna chant!” or “The FB group SAID there would be a protest so there should be!” and nothing about achieving our aims”

Yup. If someone, finally, after all the discussion about community direct action methods did come up with rational reasons why a street protest in March would be the most beneficial method to pursue, I’d be for it.

But it hasn’t been the case thus far and I think the data we have is evidence enough to show that it’s more of a risk than a benefit for this movement for now.
2 hours ago
·

Dave SingerDave Singer

‘what is so frightening and bad for the cause about that???’That you won’t get more than 100 people max, all of whom are already on board. That any journalist at Fairfax or Limited News wondering if this is an issue big enough for them to cover will conclude it isn’t. That Conroy can turn around and say only 100 people turned out to support #nocleanfeed, clearly the community is behind him.

We’ve DONE it. It doesn’t WORK. It did nothing for Iraq and we don’t stand to get anything like the numbers the anti-war guys did.
2 hours ago
·

Dave SingerDave Singer

Trish, please keep the discussion public. There should be no reason for you to keep your arguments secret. Regarding your PM:===
Look we are having rallies. You guys need to accept that you don’t rule the world and we are too busy to keep having the same arguments with you. I have taken Jasmine off my friends list as I don’t have time for this.

We have tried to work with BTF – we are happy to help promote your events in Syd and Adel but we understand you won’t promote ours in Melb and Perth.

Nothing more to discuss unless you want to actually say something different to the SAME arguments I have heard from all of you in BTF or wherever.

We only stepped in because nothing was organised for Perth and Melbourne – so if you are not supportive, so be it but lets just get on and stop this damn filter please.
===

It’s not about ruling the world, it’s about rational discussion of the best way to proceed.

I am not BTF and I do not plan any events. I am not affiliated with any group, although I make plain that I think EFA and SIC speak rationally.

‘We only stepped in because nothing was organised for Perth and Melbourne’

That is because rallies are a very bad idea.

‘so be it but lets just get on and stop this damn filter please. ‘

Your rallies, if they proceed, have ZERO possibility of stopping the damn filter and every chance of playing into Conroy’s hands.

You have not responded to my reasoning that doing it wrong is worse than doing it at all, and there should be no rallies. Instead you have stuck your fingers in your ears and said ‘lalalala not listening I’m doing it anyway’.

Unless you can reason more maturely than this, you will not receive the attention you crave from the rest of the anti-filter movement.
2 hours ago
·

Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

Trish just messaged me and for a group representative, I didn’t find it very professional. I’m removed as a friend now so I think she’s completely rage quit on this thread and maybe putting time into discussion this topic with her.What I would like to encourage really from this thread is:

1) If you’re city doesn’t have a group formed – what can we do to fix it?

2) More ideas on how to run BBQs already confirmed in the other cities? If you have a position on this, let everyone know. SIC are looking into finalizing something asap so we need feedback.

(Sorry that we don’t have it confirmed also. The March 6 date was forced upon the movement due to the BTF past crew’s efforts to promote so we have to roll with it regardless if it applies pressure on our organisation. We had loads to do so please help out!)

3) Plan B for if rallies happen and really do make a negative impact on the movement’s image and the spirit of our community.
2 hours ago
·

Dave SingerDave Singer

See my PM above. We can do without childish attention seekers.
2 hours ago ·
Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

I agree. I wasn’t going to post the PM but I think I’ll follow your lead. To explain my response to it:—–

“look I don’t have time to keep arguing so I took you off my friends list
Just rest assured we know what we are doing, some of us have been doing this stuff for ten years and more. Wow! you encourage me to do… really? You guys really have control issues and I am old enough to be your mother, so you can save the advice, I am busy”

—-

I really feel this sort of response that I, as well as BTF volunteers (particularly the current ones) and a few other SIC volunteers have received over this week on IRC or FB is completely unprofessional.

In truth, it’s likely I may have been blunt on my opinion on this to STF member in here or IRC so I can understand how it can become an emotional situation when you care about an issue that appears to have no hope from those that said they’d fight it.

However, I based my statements on experience and evidence I have within the movement as well as the criticism from others about my actions. I shift my opinion when presented with new findings that make what I once felt correct, void. I was for protests for every cause, but though I’m younger than you Trish, I’ve managed to gain a lot more knowledge on the bigger picture of direct action. So I will apply it for the benefit of a cause.

Also, the posts on here, IRC, and elsewhere about street rallies isn’t *about you*. I post my thoughts and advice not to tell you what to do. I post so that others may gain new knowledge. So others have the opportunity to learn and so that public discussion on all the details can be out in the open, easy to access so even a newbie can feel they can read it all then be involved in the debate.

I’m not at all offended/threaten by the de-friending. So once the emotion, stress and all passes, you can come back to discuss this movment’s aims more if you wish.
2 hours ago
·

Dave SingerDave Singer

I got another:===
Look, I’ve had enough of this Ok. I have had these arguments already with others and I no longer have time for them. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

You will just have to accept that.
===

Once again, no rational response to my argument that rallies will do more harm than good. We should not be getting into bed with these guys, nomatter how determined they are.

One more argument occurs to me: if rallies proceed, there is a good chance they will be hijacked by the communist groups. I’ve never seen a protest they didn’t try to piggyback on. The effect is that the public, long desensitised to their style, could write off our cause without even considering it. Add in off-topic campaigning on captalism, Iraq and Palestine and we’re screwed.
2 hours ago
·

Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

I think all we can do at present is not promote the rallies and if people ask us about it, explain our position on why they should consider more deeply why they want to attend it and hope rationality kicks in. I don’t think people that really care and truly understand the issue would risk boosting the numbers and promoting a risky method at this time.And I guess we need to kind of set in the movement’s branding into stone that has been debated for years. If we get our branding smoothed out, we can create an the image for the movement that shows we’re separate from the Communist groups etc, so hopefully this will get reflected through the media and public if we keep on it. Otherwise, we will be started at step 1 all over again.
about an hour ago
·

Tiara MerchgirlTiara Merchgirl

” if rallies proceed, there is a good chance they will be hijacked by the communist groups.”YES. This happened at the Brisbane rally – the Socialist Alliance tried distributing papers. I’ve read in at least one book (about time management for activists) that the problem with the Left is that when they have public actions, it’s cluttered with a million messages from everyone wanting to join in. And then people who would normally want to be part of your cause see the SocAll, go “I don’t want to be a Communist!”, and run away.

Pulling off an event != creating change.

about an hour ago ·
Dave SingerDave Singer

*Exactly*, Tiara.Jas, you’re right. If we do a public event, we need consistent branding, and outreach people well trained on explaining the issues. And it shouldn’t be a protest. It would be a fail protest. And a fail protest would do us more harm than good.

A better idea was the one raised by Simon at PPAU’s Sydney meeting: we get a couple of dozen people in groups of two, distinctly dressed (perhaps one in a suit with a gag, and second with a SIC t-shirt and baseball cap), attracting attention, handing out fliers and discussing the issues.

That way we get a *lot* of eyeballs, encourage as many people as we can to think about the issue and we only need 20 people to do it, distributed as ten teams throughout high-traffic parts of the city centre.

Combine that with interviews with Nick, Nic, Peter or whoever, and a press release. We need to get Fairfax, News or both getting the word out more on this.

That’d be much better than Socialist Front of Judea making us look like incoherent hippies, 80 people chanting to the choir and journalists thinking anti-filter efforts are a dead duck.

about an hour ago ·
Andrew GlanceyAndrew Glancey

looks like Bris is already hijacked by We Are Change (ie 9/11 is an inside job/tinfoil nuts) and the entire march6 action looks set to repear the Nov08 mistakes all over again :S
about an hour ago ·
Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

Is there a facebook event etc up already?!I guess I could approach Matt, he still runs the QLD chapter doesn’t he?
about an hour ago ·
Dave SingerDave Singer

http://www.wearechange.org/And anti-vax.

Seriously, we do not want to be sharing a platform with these idiots. Conroy’s trying to paint us as fringe ‘extreme libertarians’. Our getting into bed with WACos and far-left groups will do that for him.

about an hour ago ·
Andrew GlanceyAndrew Glancey

with a poor attendance of really knowledge-able activists Doing It Right, it’s gunna be even easier for these nutjobs to hijack the rallies too. plus folks like Trish will be keen to get as many ppl as possible involved and won’t be “censoring” anyone or beign careful about special interest groups – the word FAIL springs to mind :/
56 minutes ago ·
Tiara MerchgirlTiara Merchgirl

This needs to be on a public blog post, outside of Facebook.
53 minutes ago ·
Andrew Glancey Andrew Glancey

the fail continues… march 6 is mardi gras in sydney :S
23 minutes ago ·
Tiara MerchgirlTiara Merchgirl

This is just another choir-preach-fest tho. This blog post & this discussion (or at least the points within) should really be made more public, else we get more people organising stuff and implying BTF endorse it. Organise whatever you want, just be aware of what you’re doing.
15 minutes ago ·
Jasmine MarosvaryJasmine Marosvary

Tiara, true.Later today when work settles down I’ll repost it all to my blog and hopefully get some others talking about it openly. Unfortunately it was a spur of the moment thing last night so didn’t plan to put this on my blog.
11 minutes ago ·

22 Responses to “Quick Thoughts on #nocleanfeed Street Demonstrations”

  1. Dave,

    You left out these mature, professional comments that you made to me in your PM reply

    “Your ego is getting the better of you”

    “How do you expect to run a successful rally when the rest of the movement sees you running away from arguments?

    You have not responded rationally to a single argument against protests.

    I can perfectly well accept that you can do what you want and don’t have to listen to me. But everyone else will, because I am arguing with reason and you are being a childish crybaby.”

    Trish – Stop the Filter

  2. (disclaimer: not affiliated with any of the groups involved in organising)

    I’ll support a BBQ/picnic over a protest in Sydney, but has there been much development on deciding where to actually have it? I’m glad to know that we (hopefully) won’t be shouting slogans/ waving cards- just struggling to find helpful information about this. Cheers

  3. Hey Paul,

    As far as I’m aware, there isn’t any new developments for action in Sydney. The group organising it have had a lot of things hold them back unfortunately. Really, the best way to poke those trying to organise something for Sydney is to go to the BTF’s IRC channel: irc.block-the-filter.org #blockthefilter. E-mail doesn’t apparently get a response.

    There is however something related to the issue a bit further out, in Wollongong:
    http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=458479025051&ref=mf

    This is a Pirate Party meeting, so not an anti-filter group, but the organiser, Simon Frew, has been involved in this movement for quite awhile and is looking to do some activities around Wollongong outside of the Block The Filter event, not always associated with the Pirate Party either. So he might be worth contacting to bounce ideas off, etc.

  4. Quick thoughts from we of the lunatic fringe, your celebrated ‘Socialist Front of Judea’:

    ‘… we do not confront the world in a doctrinaire way with a new principle: Here is the truth, kneel down before it! We develop new principles for the world out of the world’s own principles. We do not say to the world: Cease your struggles, they are foolish; we will give you the true slogan of struggle. [sound familiar, Jas?] We merely show the world what it is really fighting for, and consciousness is something that it has to acquire, even if it does not want to.’

  5. Andrew Clancey / Dave Singer

    I’m saddened you have resorted to labels and stereotypes.

    I (Matt) and WeAreChange Brisbane which consists of average citizens with varied political beliefs had no intention whatsoever to “hijack” or “censor” anybody but rather to participate in one of Australia’s most contentious issue; internet filtering.

    Individual views on vaccination or otherwise are completely irrelevant to what we are trying to address.

    You may want to do some research into what the non-profit, non-violent grassroots organisation is about.

    http://www.wearechange.org/whoischange.html

    Read the code of conduct that all chapters worldwide have to adhere to.

    Sorry guys but we choose to be the change we want to see in the world and will not stop people from speaking passionately about an issue because of differences we may have with each other on different issues.

    We aren’t a different species or extreme, we are your brothers, sisters, cousins and next door neighbours.

    Matt.

  6. Re: Jasmine

    No WACB hasn’t started any events for Internet Filtering.

    Seeing that there are already a plethora of groups well established in this fight we only wish to help.

    We meaning ordinary citizens with jobs and families who at times only attend events once in a full moon.

    I again express my shock that WeAreChange in general is some sort of no-no word.

    We aren’t political, we see no difference between left and right.

    My PC will be out till Friday Jasmine until I get a beast. Feel free to email me and I’ll check via the library.

    We won’t be able to comitt to much as we are a self-funded and organised group.

    Thankyou for your consideration.

    Matt.

  7. Andrew, just to clarify,

    WeAreChange’s conduct (Based in NYC) is clearly different to Brisbane.

    The message is clear though.

    If you wish to label us as 9/11 nuts, then please include many victims families who have given their support to what we are doing.

    Google Manny Badillo – He is an active member in WeAreChange NYC. He lost his Uncle… call him a nut.

  8. Matt – Everyone involved in these actions will have a different political view. I respect that. In 2008 we had socialists (selling stuff, ironically) standing next to ppl holding signs that said ‘Censorship is Communism’. That’s the nature of the beast.

    That said, there was a massive amount of negative feedback in 2008 to ‘Truthers’ who showed up in Perth and derailed the event with INFOWARS signange and crap like that. It spoilt a lot of the good work other ppl had put in and turned off a lot of potential allies.

    If you want to believe jews did 911 and doctors are trying to give kids autism thru vaccination, that’s your choice (but pretty crazy, in my view) BUT your group will not be welcomed at any net censorship protests if you want to push your own agenda – the same as any other group pushing their agenda wouldn’t be.

    We’re not working for the the illuminati, or big pharma or trying to censor you: we just don’t want negative PR or unrelated issues messing with a cause we all care deeply for (again).

    If you want to participate, do it as individuals and stay On Topic and your input will be greatly appreciated by everyone – instead of putting people off – thanks brother :)

  9. Matt,

    Sharing a platform with We Are Change would drive more people away than your organisation could possibly bring.

    I appreciate that you care about mandatory filtering. We all do. Promote the cause among your contacts. Get the word out.

    If you really care about the filter, you have to think tactically. Publicly associating We Are Change with the anti-filter movement would kill the anti-filter movement.

  10. Andrew Glancey.

    I really don’t think you understand WeAreChange.

    Besides delving into your assumptions and diversions to sideline people from affecting change because they do not fit your ‘cliche’ group we always participate as individuals.

    As I’ve said we are totally self-funded and do not accept sponsorship or foundation money.

    Everything we give away is from our own pockets, for free because the topic we cover right now; 9/11 – Is for the victim’s family members & first responders.

    Please do not disrespect them by saying “You believe the Jews did it”. You know it and I know it to be a ad-hominem attack and unacceptable.

    Your assumptions that we have the ability and the tenacity to “hijack” any event at all is disheartening and quite sad.

    We are quite away of people’s threshold for the signs you’ve mentioned and would steer clear and stick to generalities.

    You must be a dead horse because I keep beating this point. As individuals forming a group with no political agenda we have no agenda to push or exploit via protests.

    We are not Socialists, communists, anarchists, marxists, leninists or otherwise.

    I’m sorry dude this isn’t a group per se, it’s an idea born from the victim’s family members and first responders who started WeAreChange.

    They started it. They continue it.

    As the idea of being the change in the world has spread of peaceful education of the issues many people from chapters across the world have focussed on many varied topics.

    I apologise if you believe you exercise any sense of authourity on my free speech but my intention isn’t to cause you to get hot under the collar.

    I can say it time and time again; no agenda, no hijacking, no political affiliation, peaceful.

    If there is a protest you won’t even notice I am there because i’ll comply with the level of common sense.

    a) The Illuminati as you say have nothing to do with Internet censorship.
    b) Big Pharma has nothing to do with Internet Censorship
    c) 9/11 has nothing to do with internet censorship.

    You may need to see the videos on youtube of various WeAreChange Chapters;

    LA, Ohio, NYC, Arizona, Florida.

  11. Dave,

    Thankyou Dave for a sensible reply.

    Still I believe you need to change your mindset on WeAreChange.

    Whatever assumptions you’ve been forced to hold need shifting.

    I respect your opinion.

    If in the future there is an event or otherwise organised by WACB that concerns you, your more than welcome.

    But you more worried about what people think.

    Time to cut through the crap man.

    I’m not beside you or blocking you, I’m right beside you and you cannot even see that.

    Sorry.

    Matt.

  12. Ahhh bad grammar.

    My bad. :)

  13. I hope people do know that the Organiser of the Perth event in December 2008 – Matteo Vinci – made it Open Mic, i.e. allowing anyone to step forward and speak, and there was only a microphone at all because a person wearing an “Investigate 9/11 shirt” bought a bullhorn and offered it for use after the PA system organised was inadequate…

    And yet overall, you guys are complaing about what WeAreChange MIGHT do in Brisbane this time around, when you’ve CURRENTLY got a group called Anonymous illegally and aggressively hacking Government websites (they plan more attacks!), and are holding a protest against the filter February 20th.

    A double standard? You tell me, but I haven’t seen Anonymous mentioned on this page once…

    Perth Rally: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=336217294950&ref=mf

  14. Hi,

    as many of you know, I write for iTWire and have supported the proposed rally in a number of articles. I am also vehemently opposed to the filter (as my writing clearly demonstrates!).

    I’m trying to read through all this discussion and figure out what is happening! I want to write up the current state of protest but am struggling to understand the current stste-of-play.

    If someone could enlighten me, I’d be very appreciative.

  15. May I ask why SIF’s rally/protests are being advertised on BTFs event page, if you don’t condone the rallies?

    I also think disabling the wall on the event page would be a good idea. It’s not censoring, it’s just being professional. There’s a lot of crap going on that wall and if you want to stop the fear mongering then I suggest you disable it and not promote SIF’s rallies.

    There is a Brisbane rally with only 14 people confirmed. This is all a joke! How on earth are people, in such a backward city going to be properly informed about internet censorship with a teeny rally? Of course, people will just think they’re a bunch of pedophiles protesting againts the censorship of child porn.

    Also – someone said Conroy is plastering us with the ‘extreme liberalist’ label – where has he said this?

  16. A few thoughts:

    How do we get to the 80% of people who support the filter?

    How do we get to the politicians who are only interested in getting re-elected?

    If very small groups of Christians can make a difference, why can’t we?

    I feel we need a coordinated multi-layered strategy that speaks to public, highlights the ignorance of the politicians involved, provides alternative answers, and threatens senators’ seats.

    (BTW – I suspect 95% of voting Australians support the filter – I’ve yet to meet anyone not extremely IT savvy who does not support the filter – only because the do not understand it, and more importantly, they see no relevance of the filter to their lives – how do we change that?)

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