Quick Thoughts on #nocleanfeed Street Demonstrations
Posted on February 12th, 2010 at 1:41 pmThis is a cross post from my Facebook note found here:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=299394242033&comments
I did this on the spur of the moment last night so wasn’t concerned about accessibility outside of Facebook so this also includes the comments for those that cannot access the note. I apologise about the formatting; just in a bit of a rush.
SIC – Stop Internet Censorship
BTF – Block The Filter
STF – Stop The Filter
DLC – Digital Liberty Coalition
IRC – Internet Relay Chat
I posted the below as a series of comments to the Block the Filter event page here:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=200213317223&index=1
Just sharing as I was suppose to blog about this ages ago but haven’t had time. So hopefully, this will make me explain myself on this topic. 
Leave some comments and ask me if you need clarification, evidence, whatever. 
—————-
First off, just so you know who I work with to avoid confusion:
I am one of the organisers from the group Stop Internet Censorship (www.stopinternetcensorship.org), based in Brisbane.
I was previously involved in the Digital Liberty Coalition in 2008/2009 as a board member.
My role in these groups has been in a number of things: media representative, event organiser, volunteer officer etc at a state and national scale.
So that’s my background. I’m trying to keep things rational rather than emotional in regards to dialogue about the actions that are happening against the filter.
To Stop The Filter:
I feel your all your posts in regards to BTF’s performance on handling this event is just causing more fear, confusing, upset etc upon the *supporters* of the cause. There is no need for it. Yes, they have not pulled through on this, however, being a loose collective of passionate activists, we have to give them some breathing room in the fact it was likely that mistakes would be made in the organisational side of things.
Those that want to know what has happened with BTF, try out IRC to speak to the current volunteers and they’re happy to be open about what the group has done (success and failures) and what they’re doing now.
To everyone:
SO WHY ARE GROUPS NOT HOLDING STREET DEMONSTRATIONS (yet):
(Limit on characters and such, I’ll be brief so no deep details and more generalising in this but if you want to discuss it in depth, post on my wall or find me on IRC.)
The fact is, regardless of a nice RSVP number on FB, this protest will no succeed in a way that will make any progress in preventing the government acting on bringing the filter in. This sounds blunt, I know. Here’s why:
- You truly need a *large* attendance, I’m speaking into the hundred thousands nationally, to gain the media exposure that would bring this issue into the mainstream. However, as the war protests in the past have shown us, the pollies will *still* ignore it as a threat.
- You’re preaching to the converted. This can be fine if your aim is to mobilise those already supporting the issue and direct them into further actions. However, a street rally isn’t the most effective way to do this.
-”But the public will see us out there; it’ll provoke them to care”. It is in my opinion that this isn’t going to work for us, right now. The majority of people don’t know about this issue, are misinformed about and/or have a ‘meh’ attitude. They need *education* first; a street rally isn’t the most effective approach for this. The target audience isn’t *us*, it’s the families that don’t understand the net that Conroy has pulled cloth over their eyes. A rally in general, is very alienating/not important to those that have more important things on the their mind like taking care of their kids.
- The action date for March 6 is less than a month away. There is really no way to organised a protest in this time. You’ll have to let aspects of the preparation to slip to get it all together. So it’s less professional leading to a disappointed crowd and media ignoring it.
- By not having a rally now, doesn’t need that one won’t happen in the future. Don’t read it that way. Should the right timing, resources and media attention come into play, maybe it would be seem that a street demonstration is the best tool we have.
WHAT THE HELL ARE THE BBQ’s/NDA ABOUT?
Now, remember I am not a representative of BTF so I am not speaking on their behalf. However, as I have spoken to their members on IRC, I’d like to share the info I have about the event’s description.
NDA (National day of action) is the replacement for the street demonstration. I noticed comments making a big deal about the use of the word, ‘protest’, but you have to remember, a form of protest doesn’t always mean raging on the streets. Writing a letter to your MP is a form of protest, a form of being a political activist. Activists do use other tools with street demonstrations.
Hence why the BTF are now doing the BBQ in the Park style rally. It’s a same thing in many regards – a gathering of people that care, discussion encouraged, information shared by speakers, fliers, signs.
The difference? The atmosphere. It’s more orientated to embrace families, kids, those that aren’t caring about the issue yet. It allows them to feel it isn’t a group of activists forcing an issue down their throats. They have a lot of important things in their life, we have to draw them in, not force them in. Making an event that is much more inviting for our target audience is a more effective way to reach those that currently think it’s not important to them or that they want to avoid us because we’re ‘just some protest group whinging’.
The last thing I want to leave on is PR. Having just another group organise just another event is confusing and can potentially hurt the movement’s branding in general.
I realise STF are doing these rallies as they feel it’s needed to unite supporters on BTF pages that have felt let down.
But look at the bigger picture. We need a united front. All groups currently that have been involved the last few months and in the past that have been holding public meetings agree that a rally isn’t the way to go at this point it time.
Another event will show a divide in the group. We don’t need this.
If you truly care for the cause, do want to be involved in making change on this issue, don’t allow your actions to be based on just the passionate anger you gain. Think about the movement’s objectives, apply some critical thinking and see the long term impacts of everyone involved. We can’t just be flying off the handles in our approach. Sure, Conroy pisses me off but things like Operation: Titstorm or just putting Conroy down won’t show the strength of the anti-censorship movement to the government.
David Crafti
Jasmine Marosvary
The only detail which seems to be set in some is the date, March 6, due to the promotion it has received.
BTF want to find volunteers to do things in the other states, however, they’re currently working out their ‘organisation’s’ structure as the current volunteers are all new blood. They’re starting a fresh pretty much so that’s why there’s no confirmed details of how what events are happening and where. Hopefully, in the next few days they will be able to provide everyone with some news.
d.
12 hours ago ·
David Crafti
Trish Zanetti
12 noon outside State Library
It is being organised by a new group called Stop the Filter Melbournehttp://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=298307181198
For anyone from Perth the page for the Stop the Filter rally is http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=336217294950
We do have a venue booked but can’t advertise it yet as still finalising public liability insurance etc but we do have Senator Scott Ludlum confirmed as a speaker on the day.
If anyone intends to go – please RSVP to the pages above to show support and get updates on speakers.
12 hours ago ·
Tiara Merchgirl
6 hours ago ·
David Crafti
Dave Singer
David Crafti
A protest can always be followed by a barbecue. The events can co-exist.
So Jasmine isn’t organising a protest, but that doesn’t mean that others can’t organise one. The protest will support any barbecue that takes place. I wish the reverse was true. I think that competing interests and a lack of cooperation has been the main reason that it has taken this long for someone to really step up and lock something in.
Tiara Merchgirl
Dave Singer
3 hours ago ·
Jasmine Marosvary
My reasons for this are:
- It will be clear that STF is separate from BTF/SIC/EFA as they have big clear in stating they’re existence came about due to ‘BTF failing everyone’. So the gap is already there.
- It makes it look like the movement thinks the street rally is a useful tool at this point in time. We’re already come out stating we do not wish to have street rallies for March, then we suddenly support a group’s rally in line with our event? This will cause confusion and lack of trust in the groups working on this issue.
- More confusion is caused as people figure out if there really is two event, one event, if something is canceled etc. Even if on the day, the first event announces the second one, people will still be like, ‘Wait? I could of went to that instead?/ Why aren’t you united?/ I’m too tired” etc.
- at the same time, a crap protest will make them not want to go to a BBQ. IF only 100 show up, I’d be disappointed and leave earlier. We need to try and avoid killing everyone’s spirit as we need volunteers for the long term.
- Street rallies during the day tire you out. I doubt half the crowd from a street rally will then go to a BBQ afterwards. They got their rage out, think they’ve made change and used up their energy already.
-Now the big one: Media comes out in the morning usually. If the street rally is between say 9-12, it’s likely they will ONLY go to that event and forget the BBQ, especially in smaller cities. This means, if we do get any coverage for the NDA, it’ll be shown as ‘street protesters’ and the media will do the same thing with coverage as they did with the DLC rallies imho. We want the media to go to the BBQ’s – we want them to hopefully write about how we’re a community educating on another, not that we are an angry mob. We *need* to get away from the angry mob image if we want opposition *and* supporters to take their involvement in the cause seriously.
3 hours ago ·
Jasmine Marosvary
3 hours ago ·
David Crafti
vehement opposition to a rally could work to be a self-fulfilling prophecy, however, which would be disappointing. Meanwhile, I still haven’t heard
anything concrete about a barbecue in Melbourne, so I can’t get behind that
due to a lack of existence.
Trish Zanetti
Andrew Glancey
David Crafti
Trish Zanetti
David Crafti
Jasmine Marosvary
Did it get any coverage? Hell no. Melbourne locally got no local media outlets mention it. We did get national and some international coverage in general about DLC but no more. And of course, Conroy and co didn’t take it as a threat. They didn’t even comment on it after the events occurred.
The other problem was, the secondary use of protests wasn’t use – to get people doing actions *after* the event. This would have made in a successful protest in a sense but it didn’t seem to occur.
3 hours ago ·
Jasmine Marosvary
Holding a rally before we get over this stereotype, while the general joe smith thinks its angry activists, won’t make them stop and think beyond what the media has told them. When something is a mainstream issue, this stereotype isn’t so much a problem but currently for this movement it is. It’s the wall we ran into with DLC events.
3 hours ago ·
Trish Zanetti
3 hours ago ·
Jasmine Marosvary
In the past a successful means of reaching the public is ‘info tables’.
1) Grab a permit for a mall,
2)get a very *small* crowd of people that *know everything* on the issue – I mean arguments, tech side, quotes – off by heart.
3) Give out pamphlets appropriate for your target audience (think about the sort of area you’re doing this in to decide)
This allows the public a face to face, one on one, non-political charged atmosphere to here your thoughts on the issue.
I do encourage this sort of thing during street rallies too. I don’t believe just having speakers and signs is effective. But this method above you can arrange to do every weekend, any time and any where and not have to worry about alienating those with a large crowd.
3 hours ago ·
Andrew Glancey
There is simply more effective methods to adopt, right now. If u can give me a reason why street protesting is so important, so effective, I am all ears. But I have heard no argument put forward from anyone yet – it’s all “I wanna chant!” or “The FB group SAID there would be a protest so there should be!” and nothing about achieving our aims.
Also, make sure you have a PA for Ludlam this time – Perth’s 08 rally used megaphones that ran out of batteries and it was embarrassing as hell for everyone involved.
3 hours ago ·
Jasmine Marosvary
Jasmine Marosvary
Yup. If someone, finally, after all the discussion about community direct action methods did come up with rational reasons why a street protest in March would be the most beneficial method to pursue, I’d be for it.
But it hasn’t been the case thus far and I think the data we have is evidence enough to show that it’s more of a risk than a benefit for this movement for now.
2 hours ago ·
Dave Singer
We’ve DONE it. It doesn’t WORK. It did nothing for Iraq and we don’t stand to get anything like the numbers the anti-war guys did.
2 hours ago ·
Dave Singer
Look we are having rallies. You guys need to accept that you don’t rule the world and we are too busy to keep having the same arguments with you. I have taken Jasmine off my friends list as I don’t have time for this.
We have tried to work with BTF – we are happy to help promote your events in Syd and Adel but we understand you won’t promote ours in Melb and Perth.
Nothing more to discuss unless you want to actually say something different to the SAME arguments I have heard from all of you in BTF or wherever.
We only stepped in because nothing was organised for Perth and Melbourne – so if you are not supportive, so be it but lets just get on and stop this damn filter please.
===
It’s not about ruling the world, it’s about rational discussion of the best way to proceed.
I am not BTF and I do not plan any events. I am not affiliated with any group, although I make plain that I think EFA and SIC speak rationally.
‘We only stepped in because nothing was organised for Perth and Melbourne’
That is because rallies are a very bad idea.
‘so be it but lets just get on and stop this damn filter please. ‘
Your rallies, if they proceed, have ZERO possibility of stopping the damn filter and every chance of playing into Conroy’s hands.
You have not responded to my reasoning that doing it wrong is worse than doing it at all, and there should be no rallies. Instead you have stuck your fingers in your ears and said ‘lalalala not listening I’m doing it anyway’.
Unless you can reason more maturely than this, you will not receive the attention you crave from the rest of the anti-filter movement.
2 hours ago ·
Jasmine Marosvary
1) If you’re city doesn’t have a group formed – what can we do to fix it?
2) More ideas on how to run BBQs already confirmed in the other cities? If you have a position on this, let everyone know. SIC are looking into finalizing something asap so we need feedback.
(Sorry that we don’t have it confirmed also. The March 6 date was forced upon the movement due to the BTF past crew’s efforts to promote so we have to roll with it regardless if it applies pressure on our organisation. We had loads to do so please help out!)
3) Plan B for if rallies happen and really do make a negative impact on the movement’s image and the spirit of our community.
2 hours ago ·
Dave Singer
Jasmine Marosvary
“look I don’t have time to keep arguing so I took you off my friends list
Just rest assured we know what we are doing, some of us have been doing this stuff for ten years and more. Wow! you encourage me to do… really? You guys really have control issues and I am old enough to be your mother, so you can save the advice, I am busy”
—-
I really feel this sort of response that I, as well as BTF volunteers (particularly the current ones) and a few other SIC volunteers have received over this week on IRC or FB is completely unprofessional.
In truth, it’s likely I may have been blunt on my opinion on this to STF member in here or IRC so I can understand how it can become an emotional situation when you care about an issue that appears to have no hope from those that said they’d fight it.
However, I based my statements on experience and evidence I have within the movement as well as the criticism from others about my actions. I shift my opinion when presented with new findings that make what I once felt correct, void. I was for protests for every cause, but though I’m younger than you Trish, I’ve managed to gain a lot more knowledge on the bigger picture of direct action. So I will apply it for the benefit of a cause.
Also, the posts on here, IRC, and elsewhere about street rallies isn’t *about you*. I post my thoughts and advice not to tell you what to do. I post so that others may gain new knowledge. So others have the opportunity to learn and so that public discussion on all the details can be out in the open, easy to access so even a newbie can feel they can read it all then be involved in the debate.
I’m not at all offended/threaten by the de-friending. So once the emotion, stress and all passes, you can come back to discuss this movment’s aims more if you wish.
2 hours ago ·
Dave Singer
Look, I’ve had enough of this Ok. I have had these arguments already with others and I no longer have time for them. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
You will just have to accept that.
===
Once again, no rational response to my argument that rallies will do more harm than good. We should not be getting into bed with these guys, nomatter how determined they are.
One more argument occurs to me: if rallies proceed, there is a good chance they will be hijacked by the communist groups. I’ve never seen a protest they didn’t try to piggyback on. The effect is that the public, long desensitised to their style, could write off our cause without even considering it. Add in off-topic campaigning on captalism, Iraq and Palestine and we’re screwed.
2 hours ago ·
Jasmine Marosvary
about an hour ago ·
Tiara Merchgirl
Pulling off an event != creating change.
Dave Singer
A better idea was the one raised by Simon at PPAU’s Sydney meeting: we get a couple of dozen people in groups of two, distinctly dressed (perhaps one in a suit with a gag, and second with a SIC t-shirt and baseball cap), attracting attention, handing out fliers and discussing the issues.
That way we get a *lot* of eyeballs, encourage as many people as we can to think about the issue and we only need 20 people to do it, distributed as ten teams throughout high-traffic parts of the city centre.
Combine that with interviews with Nick, Nic, Peter or whoever, and a press release. We need to get Fairfax, News or both getting the word out more on this.
That’d be much better than Socialist Front of Judea making us look like incoherent hippies, 80 people chanting to the choir and journalists thinking anti-filter efforts are a dead duck.
Andrew Glancey
Jasmine Marosvary
Dave Singer
Seriously, we do not want to be sharing a platform with these idiots. Conroy’s trying to paint us as fringe ‘extreme libertarians’. Our getting into bed with WACos and far-left groups will do that for him.
Andrew Glancey
Tiara Merchgirl
Andrew Glancey
Tiara Merchgirl
Jasmine Marosvary
